Dr. Allen Lim helped popularize the the use of power based training in cycling. He also served as nutritionist to some of the biggest World Tour teams (Garmin, RadioShack) and American cycling stars-keeping them well fueled, healthy and upset stomach-free during races.
Sports nutrition can be a complex domain, even more when a lot of supplement/sport drink companies spend so much effort on marketing teir products rather than on actual R&D.
Lim outlines the importance of nutrition in his recently launched book « The Feed Zone CookBook ». He also now sells his own sport drink « Skratch Labs ».
The idea behind is quite simple: eat real food, drink for hydration. Trimes.org wanted to know more about him and how to apply nutrition science to triathlon. Allen makes it pretty clear.
You’ve made a big splash with your cookbook and your company Skratch Labs. Your philosophy is quite different from what we are used to hearing. Your theory is: « Drink your electrolytes eat your calories ». How do you explain that big companies like Gatorade or PowerBar never really adjusted their approach? What is the science behind your approach?
I can’t say why bigger companies in the sports nutrition world haven’t adjusted their thinking. I can only assume it is because they are making a lot of money with the status quo and because changing would be counter to their long entrenched marketing efforts.
The science behind my thinking is quite simple – replace the fluid and electrolytes that you lose during exercise and replenish enough calories so that between stored glycogen and the calories consumed there’s enough carbohydrate energy to accomplish a given task. Long story short, the science is replace what you lose.
What isn’t simple is that most people have no idea how much fluid they are losing, how much sodium they are losing, and how many calories they are burning. What I’m ultimately proposing isn’t rocket science. It’s just that most people underestimate their fluid and sodium needs and overestimate their caloric needs while exercising. When you do the math, drinking a sports drink with fewer calories and eating additional real food that doesn’t overwhelm the gut with a lot of unnecessary excess ingredients is just common sense.
You’re well know for your work with professional cycling teams. I always thought that nutrition culture between cycling and triathlon (drink calories, not relying on natural food) is inherently different.Why so?
I don’t know too much about triathlon culture, so I can’t say that the nutrition culture between the two sports is massively different. But, what I do know is that the feeding logistics of the two sports is very different. In cycling we have the advantage of feeding from vehicles in races and having soigneurs and chefs who prep the days food. In triathlon, however, competitors are mostly reliant on feed stations and the food and drink given to them at those feed stations. From that perspective, the pro cyclists I’ve worked with have the unique advantage of being able to experiment with a lot of different nutritional strategies and can customize their nutritional needs to a much greater extent than triathletes. Perhaps this is why you see more real food being consumed by cyclists when they race compared to triathletes who are more reliant on pre-packaged foods.
Feeding during a triathlon is more complicated than feeding during than road cycling event. Can you really eat your calories without negatively affecting the run part of a triathlon? Would this differ for an Olympic distance event versus a half iron distance triathlon?
I wouldn’t say that the nutrition for triathlon is more complex per se than cycling. What I would say is that the logistics in triathlon are more complex than cycling. From that perspective, the exercise hydration products we sell at Skratch Labs is absolutely relevant for long distance triathlon especially if it’s hot. It’s important to realize that even at a low carbohydrate concentration of 4% (4 grams per 100 ml of fluid or 80 Calories per half liter) for most endurance athletes, if they are drinking enough to not lose more than 3 to 5% of their body weight, a lower concentration of carbohydrate is adequate for replacing the stored glycogen they are burning. So in effect, it is possible to drink all of your calories while exercising. The question to ultimately ask is whether you are losing fluids through sweat at a faster rate than you’re burning calories or if you’re burning calories at a faster rate than you’re sweating. In most situations, most athletes lose more fluid from sweating than they burn calories. But in those situations that calories are needed, real food can do the job just as well if not better than a lot of semi-solid gels and liquids. The issue really becomes one of convenience and logistics. Unfortunately, the reality is that most convenient nutrition is harder on the body than simple freshly made foods using simple whole ingredients.
Regarding Olympic and half ironman triathlons, I’d make the argument that an athlete who is adequately carbohydrate loaded who has had a solid pre-race meal doesn’t really need to do anything but drink a low carbohydrate solution (4-5%) during a race. Because energy stores would be ample for these shorter events, there wouldn’t be an argument for additional calories, regardless of form – solid or liquid.
In Ironman, the general consensus is to drink your calories – an approach you are totally against. But triathletes would not necessarily know how to apply it during an iron distance event. Can you give us an guideline for this? What are the differences between nutrition requirements for cycling and running? If we do not go the hydration in bottle route and food in pocket route, what other suggestions do you have for long course triathletes?
I’m not against drinking calories. I’m against drinking large volumes of highly concentrated solutions at one time. Imagine trying to get a lot of cars onto a highway. If each car is consistently allowed onto the highway via a traffic light that meters their movement, the traffic flow is a lot smoother than if you tried pushing all those cars onto the highway at once. Drinking more fluid at a lower concentration consistently throughout an event is a much safer way of getting both calories and fluid into the body than trying to ram a ton of calories in liquid form into the body at once. This is where solid food can be helpful. Because solid food needs to be digested and gets held up in the stomach, the entrance of calories from the stomach into the small intestine is paced allowing a slower release of calories into the body that lowers the risk of gastrointestinal distress compared to a large quantity of liquid calories that empties much more rapidly from the stomach and which can subsequently overwhelm the small intestine. The irony is that a lot of sports nutrition mixes and products are designed to bypass normal digestion, thinking that doing so will be easier on the gut. In reality, the digestive tract is a pretty sophisticated and smart system.Trying to be smarter than nature often leads to more problems than it solves. That all said, the real bottom line is simply asking yourself if you’ve had gastrointestinal problems during an endurance event. If the answer is yes and you relied on conventional high calorie liquid calories, it may be worth experimenting with something different.
Regarding practical execution in a triathlon, a lot of this comes down to carrying food on the bike, and getting plenty of water from feed stations and making sure that the calories you drink aren’t too high.
A lot of triathletes we know will take a single bottle that is highly concentrated with Skratch. That bottle is then marked with a sharpie to allow the measurement of a single serving. Then throughout the race, a measured amount is added to bottles of water that are filled over the course of the race to ensure the correct concentration of drink mix. Another thing to consider is that the time lost to manage one’s food by slowing a bit through feed stations or carrying more food and supplies on the bicycle may end up being a positive investment for the run.
While I have no practical experience with triathlon, my thought is that during the run it would be difficult to intake much of anything because of the discomfort caused by sloshing fluids and food. For that reason, keeping the calories low and liquid form will result in the fastest gastric emptying rate. More importantly, getting plenty of fuel and hydration on the bicycle is critical so that energy stores are adequate to get one through the run. I know this is all easier said than done, but just ramming crappy food down one’s throat isn’t going to solve the problem either. In the end, this isn’t suppose to be easy. We do these events because they are hard. With that in mind, I’m sure there are a lot of creative triathletes out there who could better solve the problem than me.
Triathletes need to rely on aid stations to restock on nutrition. Should we push event organizers to change their habits? What can we ask to see in aid stations?
Absolutely push organizations to change their habits. How many people need to continue to get sick and shit their speedos for things to change? Ask to see more real food with higher salt content at feed stations along with simpler hydration products that contain fewer calories and more sodium. Also ask for more personal bags to be left at more feed stations. Again, this is just common sense.
So ingesting lower concentrations of calories in fluids should avoid GI distress, correct? What does science say about using different sugars that have different transporters (eg. glucose + fructose at a ratio of 2:1)? What about products like GenUCAN?
My experience with pro cyclists tells me that drinking more at a lower carbohydrate concentration while consuming extra calories through real food significantly reduces GI-distress. There’s nothing that says this would not be the same for triathletes.
Glucose and fructose each have their own transport systems in the small intestine so using both types of carbohydrate or simply using sucrose which is a dissacharide of glucose and fructose has a lot of merit. Moreover, there’s great evidence out there that says some ratio of glucose and fructose can improve intestinal absorption.
I don’t know much about GenUCAN except for the fact that it is primarily corn starch. In theory, these type of long chain carbohydrates have a higher solubility in water – meaning that you can dissolve more calories into solution compared to something like sucrose or individual glucose or fructose molecules. In effect, for a given calorie count, longer chain carbohydrates like maltodextrin or corn starch have a lower osmolality than simpler sugars. But what people don’t realize is that by the time digestive enzymes in the mouth, stomach, and small intestine have at them, they eventually break down into simple glucose molecules which can rapidly increase the osmotic pressure at the level of the small intestine which can severely hamper water movement into the body. In a lot of ways, these types of carbohydrates are like Trojan Horses when used to replace a lot of calories at once. What looks like one horse or molecule outside of the body can turn into hundreds of molecules that overwhelm the gut.
Some athletes claim they can teach their bodies to accept high calorie concentration foods. Can the gut really be trained?
I think if they have done this successfully than they should keep on doing it. I’m not asking people to change what they are doing. I’m simply offering an alternative explanation for why many people might be having GI-distress using what’s conventional. Yes, I think that the gut, like any organ system can be trained. But, why train the gut to adapt to processed chemically laden foods when there are plenty of good alternatives out there. All it takes is some effort and care.
From my experience, when I’m running, I can’t seem to drink water as it just feels like it sloshes around in my gut. But this does not seem to be the case with Coke or Gatorade. Am I imagining things or is this a possibility?
You ever consider that Coke and Gatorade sloshes around just like water sloshes around? Yes, liquid slosh around. And highly concentrated liquids slosh around just as much as lower concentrated liquids. That said, water alone isn’t a solution either. Without a little bit of sugar and plenty of sodium, water won’t absorb as fast as it could.
And we are supposed to avoid fat to run our best?
No. Who says that? Bacon is awesome. Ever try it?
Many triathletes claim to be victims of cramping due to electrolyte depletion. Are you in the « muscle fatigue theory camp » or in the « electrolyte depletion theory camp »? Somewhere in between?
Cramps can happen because of muscle fatigue, because of an electrolyte disturbance, and because of dehydration. There are plenty of models showing that all are potentially valid mechanisms for exercise-induced cramping. Sometimes it’s just one of these factors. Often times, it’s a combination of factors. Training better, drinking more, keeping electrolyte intakes high are all important to prevent cramping. There is also some evidence that tickling the back of one’s throat with something like 4 to 6 ounces of pickle juice can induce an oropharyngeal reflex that can override the reflex which causes a cramp. I’ve never tried it, but it can’t hurt.
How important is to train with your race nutrition? Some athletes think they need to always train with their race day nutrition while others rarely do. How can athletes tell how often they need to practice their race day nutrition plan, particularly for the unique challenges of long course triathlon.
It is extremely important if not imperative to train with your race nutrition. This is the fundamental basis of specificity. If an athlete has no problems not practicing their race day nutrition then they don’t need to practice their race day plan. If someone doesn’t practice their race day plan and they end up having problems, I say they need to practice their race day plan. It’s pretty simple.
Is it wrong to only use water during training in the hopes it might teach your body to burn fat more effectively? Are there better strategies to trim down to race weight? I understand there is a fine line and you need to use caution. How do you know when you have crossed that line? Also, is it really all about teaching your body to use more fat or are there other benefits/reasons for this ‘train low compete high’ practice? I understand this has been a ‘hot’ research topic recently, along side reducing carbohydrates right after training?
You can’t just use water if you’re sweating because you lose a lot of sodium in your sweat – anywhere from 300 to 600 mg per half liter. So just drinking water could lead to hyponatremia – a low blood sodium level which can cause a whole host of problems ranging from nausea to seizures and death. You can try to train with less calories to help teach the body to use more fat. In the end, it just comes down to hard training.
There is also a new, interesting concept: « Sleep low ». Meaning no glycogen repletion after hard training? What is your opinion on this? Who can this work for and under what circumstances?
It’s a great way to get sick. That being said, when you’re just training, you can probably get by with a lower carbohydrate quantity in your diet which will help adapt the body to using more fat. But diet manipulation is only part of it. Training is the other part of it and not getting sick is all of it. Without adequate carbohydrate you can suppress your immune function and risk illness. Finally, when coming into an event it’s imperative that enough carbohydrate is consumed to adequately replenish glycogen stores.
Obviously, the fitter someone is the more fat they will use and the more glycogen they will spare. But at the end of the day it’s best to have all systems optimized, which means you want to be able to have lots of glycogen on board in addition to being able to use fat efficiently. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
You said that GI distress is almost a badge of honour and an accepted part of being a triathlete. That means triathletes treat race-day nutrition like an uncontrollable beast. Do you think failure is a fatality?
Did I really say that? Regardless, unnecessary failure just seems like a waste of time.
What are some of the fundamental differences between the nutrition habits elite athletes and middle of the pack age groupers?
About 300 calories plus or minus per hour different. Obviously the biggest difference is the caloric expenditure. The faster you are the faster you burn calories. If you’re not as fat as an elite athlete, don’t expect that consuming as much will make you any better. Eating your way through an event isn’t going to make you faster if you’re not already capable of a certain speed.
What weight management strategies do you suggest for the ‘normal’ triathlete?
Regarding weight management, here’s what I suggest. If you’re hungry, then eat. If you’re not hungry then don’t eat. If you want to lose weight than you’re going to be hungry. If you want to gain weight, than eat enough so you’re never hungry. How complicated does this need to get?